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What we'd like to do now is transition to our blue book panel discussion portion of our

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re-eunkerns. I'd like to introduce myself again. I'm Major Sam Lafferri and I'll be your

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untrained moderator for this portion of the blue book panel discussion. I look at my

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phone. Someone of a wrong repair, an overwind free, filled on gas, and only with or without

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the most for the same cash. Again, on behalf of the Commander, Staff of the National Air

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Intelligence Center, I'd like to welcome you to our blue book panel discussions. We are

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indeed honored to have you folks here today. Our distinguished civilian and old Kerry

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and I am honored with our reunion activities and especially in my 25th anniversary blue

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book anniversary. Is it the 25th anniversary of the opening of the blue book or the closing?

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What we'd like to do is we have what we think is a pretty good show for you today. But in

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any event, our purpose in bringing together our blue book panel discussions is to pull

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first with the Blue Book and the current media blitz of all the UFO related news stories.

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We felt appropriate to this, as I like to say it, as Paul Hardish says, get the rest of the

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story from the real experts in the science and technology areas. Unfortunately, most of

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us may have been weaned on contemporary press media which leans toward the existence of

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extra trust or liability. We want to use our time today to exchange stories about how

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we should work on a project and talk about any other work experiences which articulate

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the intelligence center's contributions to our national security. Our second purpose is

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to, Paul, how can we say, pass on down the moral history of each of your professional

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experiences to some of our less seasoned military and civilian professionals who now carry the

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charge of the National Intelligence Center. I encourage each of you to offer anecdotes of your blue

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book experiences. Our audience and staff are all very friendly and eager to listen to your story.

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It's important to note, as far as I know, that all project blue book subjects aren't

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classified anymore, but I want you to be aware of, there may be some exceptions if we get into details

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of intelligence collection or analysis discussions which reveal modern-day activities or capabilities

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at the Air Intelligence Center. I'd like to point out again, we have no media presence today, or

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other folks who are questioning your point of views or comments or anecdotes. We are, however,

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as you can see, taping this event for official historical purposes. What we'd like to do now,

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we've prepared a little video to try to set the stage for our discussions which some of you may

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find humorous or thought-provoking, depending on your views, the video lives about 15 minutes.

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Great, as a matter of fact, courage. We've all exhibited in the face of such dangerous aliens.

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We're saying this is a good thing. So I think you folks are definitely out of recognition

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of the United Nations, the National Security Service. I'm serious. So what we try to present here,

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obviously, is the whole type of pie of the U.S. Ole Miss, the line, if you will, all the way

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from the media perpetuating the event through the so-called experts who have their anecdotes

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and stories. And then we try to, obviously, bring levity in as you will most of you recognize,

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Colonel Quibbner's response. Nonetheless, the bit keeps getting perpetuated. There's just a wealth

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of anecdotal evidence, but yet there's little fiscal evidence. But we have the great fable masses

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who keep moving forward and searching forward, moving the U.S. Ole Miss on down the street.

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Well, again, what I want to reiterate is we have a wonderful opportunity here today with our logical

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and clear-thinking scientific and technical experts that we have in the audience today.

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What we'd like to do is bring forward a panel of folks who, because of their experience with

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Project Bluebook and general varying experiences in the scientific and technical fields,

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they volunteer to serve as our discussion panel experts, if you will. Now, that said,

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I am going to rely on our folks who are going to be up front in front of the stage,

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but I'm also turning to the audience to add your stories and anecdotes and help answer questions

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or raise questions regarding this entire subject. And with the help of our historical films here

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and the Google Center, the Canary, which is the Roswell incident investigation,

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hopefully we can possibly lay a rest on some of these myths and carry forward a clear-thinking logic.

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I promise you that if we don't do this now, then we do our future youth and science community

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to rely more or less on the popular press to get their information about Project Bluebook

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because this will all be very weighing historical class. So, again, I'd like to encourage you to take this opportunity

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to speak to my and help facilitate our discussions. And if you don't, then we'll just go to lunch here.

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What I'd like to do is welcome our panel of members. Again, what I hope is that it's so much,

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that Cheryl will organize for us and turn it into more of what I'd like to say is an informal coffee class.

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I encourage you to speak to mine and proceed on. If I may ask, starting with Lucy,

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if you could introduce yourselves and maybe tell the audience us exactly something that you've done.

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Hi.

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Hello.

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I am Lucy. That's no answer.

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I'm starting with this out here in January the 3rd of 19 and 4th of 6.

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Anyhow, what I know about my office or youth holders are unidentified.

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I wanted to come here for a reason.

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It was in the morning that I went for the Colonel who was handed down to do the analysis.

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And he said, well, you call me on Saturday morning. He got me out of there and said, Lucy,

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I have some offices this year that need to take a report.

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And I said, this is not a big deal. And I'm just out of there.

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And I don't have a car. He said, I'll open the car in a minute.

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I said, OK, I'll get up.

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Oh, this is Jim, but too much.

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I'll send the car in.

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I got up and I go out to the embassy base.

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And there are two offices.

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How many?

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And I said, I'm taking vacation.

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And I thought, this is a joke. It's not April 3.

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Those boys were drinking my spiders.

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And I said, well, I hate them.

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But I get on to the show. I'm so good at it.

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What the hell?

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I'm just a vacationer and I'm working out there.

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I try to say, I don't know, but I think it's super plain.

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And I heard these things.

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I said, I know they can see what they say.

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But he went up.

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So I went to the same camp.

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They were very old.

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When they were, I said, this is not funny.

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Yes, this is a joke.

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And they said, they really think they saw them.

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And I said, well, if they think they saw them,

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they must have had a good angle.

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And I said, well, I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to say that.

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I'm not going to Speak too cheaply and say that,

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but I'm not going to say that.

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And that is about you.

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And that is about you say that is about you say that.

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But you say that.

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You say that.

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to the great, because they came to the age group.

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There we are.

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It's through Andy, um, trying to break it there, which are, and it's just over.

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Oh, okay, whatever.

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No, there's a little bit of time to think there's somewhere that I don't remember his name, but he's out.

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Then, right.

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Then make your friends a girl.

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And that's what I know about my group.

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Yeah, that's it.

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Well, I hope we'll get to you next time.

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I thought I'd call your name on it and come out to say hi.

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There's a channel made in the back.

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Who's an important love.

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With the little girl, it's a big girl.

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You know what's next.

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Thank you for telling us a little bit about what you did with the Blue Bull system.

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I'm Vic Billet.

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I remember you when I had an association over the years.

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Uh, like Lucy, I'm kind of an early arrival at right field, 1941.

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I started to work with the, uh, T2 gang in 1945.

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And was supplied by them in 1946.

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And stayed with them.

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I threw their shit with their names till 1973.

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Uh, I'm talking to some of the young officers in Airman here.

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They realized that, uh, I retired 21 years ago and my career really was before they were born.

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And, uh, I think some of you others here share this with me.

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Uh, those of you that know me and my work as the old organization,

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wonder how come I'm up here?

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Because you know very well I had nothing to do with Blue Bull.

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Uh, or you folks.

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The reason Bruce and Major Laverde were trying to get this panel together,

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and I said I would try to help,

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get George Gregory to attend.

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George was the number two, uh, Blue Bull officer after Ed Ruppel.

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And, um, my first recollection of the UFO effort, like Lucy's recollection of taking vacation,

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I remember we moved from area B to area A,

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and took second story of, I think it was 867, uh, building that now is a parking lot.

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And, um, the analysis division was given the job, passed down from Colonel Pett

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to, uh, in response to General Quingy saying that he wanted this thing to be followed actively.

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And a Colonel Miles Goal who was asking, uh, Chief Laverde,

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set up a special situation room on that second floor, uh,

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to collect the reports that came in, and a few fragments of, uh,

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hardware that were collected.

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Uh, people picked up things as they said fell off a UFOs,

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or some of them actually were the models that were used in the spurious chronographies of the UFO.

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That situation room, uh, was a, not probably 8 feet wide and 10 feet long,

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with a door on it and, uh, had limited access.

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Only a few people got into.

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Well, I thought I remembered George Gregory in there,

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packing up, uh, some of the early stuff,

240
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when Colonel Goal took me in and showed me the room.

241
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Uh, this year when I talked to George and asked him about it,

242
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he said he didn't remember that he was involved at that time,

243
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but he certainly does remember later.

244
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Uh, George was a, I'd like to say a few words about him.

245
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He was a, uh, uh, got out of World War II of Captain.

246
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He'd been in the, uh,

247
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the 1938 group stoop outfit of Elliot Roosevelt's, uh,

248
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reconnaissance in the battlefield,

249
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and was somewhat of, uh, had a World War career, a World War II career.

250
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Uh, he worked here as a civilian, uh, then he was recalled during the Korean state in the military,

251
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uh, went to Vietnam, concluded 110 missions in Vietnam.

252
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He's been decorated frequently for efforts in the intelligence field,

253
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as well as in the reconnaissance in Vietnam.

254
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Uh, I tried desperately to get George to come,

255
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and he's the person who shouldn't be sitting here,

256
00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:59,000
but unfortunately he was scheduled to have a, uh, hip replacement rework,

257
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an overall if you will, right this day, so he could not be here.

258
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But, uh, George sent me a, a, a box, I wanted to show you the box.

259
00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:20,000
It's really a surprise, a beautifully, uh, a, a rain box, and in it,

260
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I, when I opened it, I've got a 150 page summary of the whole UFO program.

261
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George has the implementing directives of the, uh, project blue book,

262
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all the way through, he picked up organization charts,

263
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uh, some of the reports that came in that you saw in the, uh, movie, which was extraordinarily good,

264
00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:57,000
and, uh, then of course the final closure of the project.

265
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This is George's lifetime interest in the UFO effort,

266
00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:09,000
and, uh, he has, uh, I think created an outstanding document.

267
00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:18,000
Uh, I would like to make it available here for any of you seriously interested in what went on.

268
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Uh, they are all in plastic jackets, so, uh, some of these are irreplaceable documents,

269
00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:32,000
and you come up and look at them, and look them over, I, I, I'm going to leave them here, uh, for a view.

270
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It was our intention, I talked to Bruce Ashcroft, that we would pass this on down to the Air University

271
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to be in the UFO file.

272
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:52,000
Well, we found out the Air University has sent their whole UFO file to the National Archives,

273
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:59,000
so it is now our intention to pass this on to the National Archives.

274
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:05,000
Uh, Greg has, uh, deeded them over to me with a legal document,

275
00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:12,000
so I have the, uh, uh, responsibility for maintaining an antithesis,

276
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uh, actually putting them into somebody's ant, for permanent attention.

277
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I'd also like to mention that George's job in addition to the, uh, UFO,

278
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he put together the intelligence collection guidance manuals, uh, for the collection of technical intelligence.

279
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And particularly the collection people and the analysis people here from back in the old days.

280
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Remember when Greg used to go around from desk to desk and collect the, uh, collection, uh,

281
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highlights of information that we wanted, and he put them together in what became Air Force manuals,

282
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and he has documented all this and has a, uh, uh, a record of the whole affair for which he was a secretary.

283
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:17,000
He also points out that the center at that time had tried two contracts.

284
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In those days we spent big money, $50,000, and if the contracts failed to do the job, and Greg did it.

285
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And he did an outstanding job.

286
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:35,000
And then third, lastly, Greg put together a military sketch of his own career.

287
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:46,000
And I think this is, this too is a, uh, astonishingly good document of a guy that went to the trouble to document his own career,

288
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uh, in a real fine heritage to his children.

289
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And he, they had all the children do have copies of it.

290
00:21:54,000 --> 00:22:03,000
But, uh, uh, Greg had the article here on himself and, uh, publication, decorations, and so forth.

291
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Some of you that do him well would probably like to browse in and out.

292
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:21,000
Uh, I also contacted Colonel Nate Rosengarten, who was a recall of proactive duty to, uh, then the addict in 1951.

293
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And, uh, he was head of, uh, believe the aircraft division analysis, uh, or aircraft branch of the analysis division.

294
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And, uh, he said he was the one who appointed Captain, uh, Rupel to the, uh, requirements for an officer, the first Douglas officer.

295
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He said he, uh, appointed Rupel because Rupel was a real fine officer, uh, did whatever he was asked to do in a real good fashion,

296
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,000
and he knew he would do a good job.

297
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:14,000
Uh, try to get Rosie to be here to sit on the panel because he actually went out on a couple of the, uh, reviews of officers who had, uh, seen flying objects.

298
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:25,000
In particular, two pilots in the Fort Monmouth area, uh, saw flying objects while they were flying at training mission.

299
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And, uh, at the same time that they reported these objects close to them, the, uh, Fort Monmouth is an army electronic center,

300
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:52,000
and the radar operators at Fort Monmouth were tracking the UFOs at that time to corroborate the, uh, information.

301
00:23:52,000 --> 00:24:09,000
Well, when Rosie sat in on the review with these officers, and then later, I guess the analysis proved that the whole thing was as many of them tracking a weather balloon.

302
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:29,000
It had automatic altitude compensation features in it as a temperature change, a balloon change, altitude, and all the evidence seen by the pilots and by the radar were corroborated with the, uh, behavior of the balloon.

303
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:44,000
So I think there were a lot of, uh, instances like that. Uh, Colonel Rosie Gardner wanted me to be sure and tell you that he thought that the more sightings were reported,

304
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:57,000
the fostered even more new ones to come in every time you had a, uh, good headline item while then you'd have a bunch of new ones reported shortly after.

305
00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:11,000
Now, my last, uh, association with the project was, uh, I briefed, I sat in on several briefings by a major friend and Lieutenant Colonel Quinn Mella.

306
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:23,000
It was usually with Dr. Heineck's presence, he was our contract consultant on the, uh, UFO. He was a professor of astronomy.

307
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:36,000
Uh, so we went to sit in staff meeting and listened to this, uh, the status and the progress and what they were about to do.

308
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:49,000
And it was almost always a unanimous opinion of the staff. Uh, Herman here, uh, I, uh, remember real well, everybody said, why don't we get rid of that project

309
00:25:49,000 --> 00:26:00,000
and use the manpower and money for something worthwhile? Well, we couldn't get out of it because it was a directive from Head Porter and USES.

310
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:13,000
Well, another, uh, just recently I started a home remark on the telephone telling him about this meeting and Homer unfortunately couldn't come because of health problems.

311
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:32,000
And here's many, many of us aren't coming because of health problems. And I think the long-range projections major Laverde spoke of when, well, Bruce spoke of into the future what we're going to do next year and the year after.

312
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:40,000
It occurs to me it won't be too many years before their masks and have a different group of people here to listen to.

313
00:26:40,000 --> 00:27:01,000
But nonetheless, Homer said he was given the job when they were going up to the Pentagon and I guess somebody like Wainbrenner said, Homer, when you're up there go wrapping on the doors from the Pentagon until you find somebody that will get us off this bullfrog project.

314
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:22,000
So Homer went to several staff offices. He said, everybody agreed, let's get out of it. But he said nobody would take the responsibility of implementing this till they finally found some office, albeit PR office for the chief of staff or whatever.

315
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:38,000
So the Air Force kind of got out of the business and it became a national science project from there on.

316
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:59,000
Last year when Colonel Quint Nella came up, Bruce and I met with Carl Day, the local TV producer, and talked a little bit about what we could do, what we knew and our experience associated with this project.

317
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:21,000
And then I think we did a month, Carl Day had Colonel Quint Nella on the local TV. And I believe with the picture you saw here of Quint Nella's comments, less his expletive, but I'm with what he thought of the project.

318
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:36,000
And I may have come out of that interview. Quint was not in particularly good health. He had a heart attack while he was here. He unfortunately didn't feel strong enough to come up with this beyond the panel.

319
00:28:36,000 --> 00:29:01,000
Well that pretty well sums up what I know about it. And again my apologies for being sitting here with the UFO expert. I've picked up a book just a day ago, UFO encounters. And it's a real, real classy book. There's a lot of pictures in it.

320
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:27,000
But on page 32 of the book, I think you can at least see the size of the pictures dedicated to it. We have General Rodger Ramey, who was then the commanding general of the 509, the only U.S. atomic energy delivery outfit in the Air Force then.

321
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaking to General John Samford, who is the assistant chief of Samford Intelligence. And we have Captain Ed Rubell looking over, seeing what Samford is telling Ramey.

322
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:56,000
And then we have the illustrious Roy James sitting to my left, looking over and Colonel Bauer in the background here, who is then chief of the analysis division.

323
00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:19,000
And Dr. Griffin, who is in our basic science organization. They had all gone out to the Pentagon to discuss what Roy is going to tell you about. I'm glad he wanted to tell you that we've got at least one very prominent national figure in our group here.

324
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:25,000
That's about all I have to say. I'm glad there's plenty of questions. I know.

325
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:36,000
I'm facing a difficult dilemma. Was there a question? Yes.

326
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:37,000
Everyone over here is.

327
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:47,000
And quick one about the material. You, I remember the Air Force Museum coffee and I'm curious why that is in the end of the day.

328
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:52,000
I have contact with them and they would like to see it.

329
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:58,000
You get it in the archives. It disappears. You throw it over your head and you see how it's all available.

330
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:01,000
I'll tell you more about that.

331
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,000
Question on that one.

332
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:14,000
Mr. Kelly, someone has mentioned a little green man. Anyone that knows that I've heard that the faith are always asking me about it.

333
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,000
People, I will tell you all about the little green man.

334
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:27,000
When we worked in the old climate center, we had a Q party in the warehouse across the street.

335
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:35,000
German prisoners were attacked there during the war. And through news out there, they put murals on the wall.

336
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:45,000
They had the Gula Gula girls. They had all sorts of faith. And they had little green men.

337
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:57,000
And little switch people wear home and mention those green men as the faith. And that's an ideality for nobody believes me.

338
00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:12,000
We're running kind of tight of time. The distinguished national members are telling us very political stories.

339
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:18,000
But I also have a list of 20 questions I'd like to throw out to the audience and get to those.

340
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:31,000
If I may be so bold as to try to get some more introductions. And then hopefully we can sneak in a few of these questions that I think would be of value to the historical record.

341
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:42,000
If I might, Roy, would you like to say a few words about where you worked and then maybe we can get into your background as part of the discussion?

342
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:52,000
I worked in the late-Ponics division for many years. Getting back to the U.S. oil problem.

343
00:32:52,000 --> 00:33:03,000
The most famous U.S. oil that's been detected by radar was those in the Perth of Washington, D.C., in the hot summer of 1952.

344
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:13,000
The recent one where FTD or ATIC was called on to send people down to help solve the General Senate problem.

345
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:19,000
When we got there, of course, the new animals were gone. They were no longer on the radar scale.

346
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:27,000
And one morning it told the president to take these photos. He was talking to the analogs.

347
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:37,000
I had two and a half years experience with the radar that was used at the airport there, National Airport.

348
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:46,000
And this press conference lasted an hour and twenty-nine.

349
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:53,000
And then the hour and twenty-nine, I answered the fake statements 45 times.

350
00:33:53,000 --> 00:34:02,000
In fact, I felt like I was in the concierge and kept looking at General Samford to see if he thought I was taking over.

351
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:06,000
A couple of times he said that I may release Captain James and he'd say something.

352
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:11,000
And then he came right back to me on the radar detection.

353
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:19,000
What just happened, the intelligence department at the work sent two officers over to see the scopes.

354
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:27,000
And they reported back to General Samford that yes, there were soldiers in the U.S. publics and that they were next.

355
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:30,000
Surrounded Washington, D.C.

356
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:34,000
First of all, thank you both for this.

357
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:47,000
From my experience with this type of radar, I was familiar with the weather effects that caused detection.

358
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:51,000
Ground targets that are not normally seen.

359
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:56,000
I postulated over and over the fence, what was going on.

360
00:34:56,000 --> 00:35:04,000
And one hour after the press conference, General Samford more or less agreed that that was the answer to the UFOs.

361
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:09,000
They were seen by temperature and version effects along the radar.

362
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:21,000
I have a piece of a book here by Dr. Dunlman himself.

363
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:25,000
He wrote a book on the world of flying saucers.

364
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:32,000
And at this report, he reports that my dog, the three-fested four of the angels, Radar sickness,

365
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:35,000
had ended in the post-mortem to an empty gun.

366
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:42,000
One radar expert who kept his head in spite of the distortion was Captain Roy James of ATIC,

367
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:47,000
who immediately recognized the targets that caused my weather.

368
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:52,000
I did that without ever seeing the targets on the scope.

369
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:55,000
Today, this is the answer.

370
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:08,000
I've got a sense in that too, last but not the same.

371
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:16,000
Like thick, I started at STD P2 in 1946.

372
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:23,000
Prior to that, I remember pictures in the Arnold Laboratory of the Federal Laboratory,

373
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:28,000
and was taught into joining P2 by a fellow named Charles Novel,

374
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:32,000
especially the Rhode Island Rick Chackins.

375
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:39,000
I was 51 on my left, was C2, and went to Patel.

376
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:44,000
I stayed on Patel until I retired in 84.

377
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:53,000
During the entire period, STD supported research that's very well known as a private store

378
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:56,000
or a pet store.

379
00:36:56,000 --> 00:37:00,000
In a check that I made a day before yesterday,

380
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:04,000
N-A-I-C still supports the research that St. Louis St. Louis St. Louis St. Louis St.

381
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:10,000
which makes it one of the longest-standing, continuous support projects that St. Louis St. Louis St. has ever had.

382
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:18,000
Now about Bluebuck, we are one of the people who actually work on Bluebuck.

383
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:21,000
We did two studies, and we all...

384
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:26,000
First, we received thousands and thousands of sites,

385
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:33,000
and we were tagged by the private hospital to evaluate the use,

386
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:40,000
and I thought it would be interesting to know in what time people would use and evaluate these sites.

387
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:47,000
Some of the users, all of whom I am, remember Dr. David T. Williams, who is a Ph.D. citizen.

388
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:56,000
He fled the shell, rather early in his career, and became head of the Federal Engineering University of Florida games.

389
00:37:56,000 --> 00:38:03,000
He participated in completing all evaluations and other photos by Pete Bailinger, who is a G.S.P.

390
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:10,000
Each of these sites went through depending on how valuable they were most of them.

391
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:14,000
I hate to tell you, but it was very garbage.

392
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:25,000
Those that had some hard to understand points in them, these were thoroughly examined, great details,

393
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:35,000
and we suddenly turned in a report which was called something like KPS, which is Project Proposal Sheet, that he write those.

394
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:39,000
They became KPS, Project Proposal Sheet.

395
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:47,000
This became a report, this is something that had a blue cover, and it was called Blue Book 25, something like that.

396
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:57,000
In any case, the conclusion of that study was, forget it, I want to make a comment about the monitoring.

397
00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:06,000
All of the monitors that we got to know quite well felt that FTD looked upon a blue book project with a scans.

398
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:15,000
In fact, anyways, in their view of the project monitors, they were never given the appropriate resource.

399
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:20,000
Our experience with fire resources just wasn't a story, you see.

400
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:33,000
The second time the report we did came along several years later, and it had only one report for the project store at FTD.

401
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:40,000
Is there a threat to the national security of the United States? The answer was no.

402
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:44,000
Any questions, I'll be happy to find.

403
00:39:51,000 --> 00:40:02,000
And the tour school is a little bit better than the regular one, because what I have to say is, it's going to be pretty dry.

404
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:16,000
And to begin with, at that time, FTD's intelligence department attracted a unique group of both military and civilian personnel.

405
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:22,000
While they were not misfits or hate balls, they did lock us to their own drums.

406
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:27,000
And sometimes without a drum.

407
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:39,000
The first knowledge I had of flying saucers, or I won't later, became flying saucers, was a boxer, by the name of Snyker, Bob Snyker.

408
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:45,000
I think in that time he was a major. And all the intelligence reports he was channeled through to him.

409
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:51,000
And from there they were dispirited out to some of the other people.

410
00:40:51,000 --> 00:41:05,000
And at that time, I think, he was slated to be a, he had parents, both secret, so at that time, parents had spent a lot more than they do now.

411
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:09,000
So all of his intelligence reports went to him first.

412
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:15,000
And he had a group of, and I think at that time, 40, very very healthy.

413
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:18,000
At that time, which very very, I think was still in human life.

414
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:29,000
And I was originally started with FTD in June of 46, O.T.2.

415
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:46,000
And my job at that time was to classify their categories of eyes and identify the equipment, big setback, to keep these ships with the guy flying.

416
00:41:46,000 --> 00:42:03,000
And the only time I could talk about flying saucers was from a period about September of 47 through August of 48.

417
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:09,000
Anything else after that I had known, to accept hearsay.

418
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:20,000
We were tasked by headquarters who are real good at testing the very, very poor at funding money back to us.

419
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:24,000
And their job was doing that, but it needs work.

420
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:41,000
Anyhow, we were tasked with it and they set up a project in Captain, at that time, Lieutenant Howard Smith, a distinguished fire cop, and very good common sense was assigned a project officer.

421
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:44,000
And I was assigned to assist him.

422
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:52,000
And we carried this through the, since we didn't have any money, we depended upon the OSI to run our investigations.

423
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:55,000
We didn't have any money to travel expenses or anything.

424
00:42:55,000 --> 00:43:00,000
We depended on the OSI to give us the information.

425
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:03,000
The first thing I had to do was to make a roadmap.

426
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:12,000
Four or one more to go, Howard was going to get to this end where I at least started to draw up essential elements of information,

427
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:23,000
which was an outline of the information we needed to try and identify these flying, well, as they called them, unidentified aerial phenomena.

428
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:29,000
So to do that, we come up with a list of things we needed to know.

429
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:35,000
And then the other thing was that we had to test different people to do that.

430
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:44,000
Because we didn't have the world of the OSI because most of it was celestial nature.

431
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:54,000
And at that time, we brought in a contractor, which was Professor Heineck from Ohio State.

432
00:43:54,000 --> 00:44:00,000
And we were lucky to get some money to do that.

433
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:11,000
And the first flying saucer report was by a fellow named Marlton, Kenneth Arnold, on Boise, Idaho.

434
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:13,000
He was a civilian pilot.

435
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:19,000
And when he described what he saw, he described it as kind of like a saucer.

436
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:24,000
So that became the flying saucer. That's where the word flying saucer started.

437
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:32,000
And after that report, they started coming in and searching numbers.

438
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:42,000
And they actually increased what they did after the publicity, you know, how the newspeak as they blew it off.

439
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:48,000
And from then on, we started to get quite a few and people started asking questions.

440
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:54,000
And one of the guys that was asking questions was the Saturday evening purpose.

441
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:59,000
And we gave an interview to Sidney Chilette.

442
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:03,000
And Sidney Chilette wrote an article on it.

443
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:10,000
And then we really did get a lot of reports in.

444
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:17,000
Most of them, we couldn't identify because there wasn't enough information.

445
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:19,000
Some of them came in before we received.

446
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:20,000
We started studying.

447
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:27,000
As we found out, they've done reports of unidentified flying saucers way back to vivid times.

448
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:32,000
Class in the firing wheels, one of them.

449
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:35,000
The Zika saw that.

450
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:42,000
And as we went on, we had a task other out.

451
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:47,000
I think we even asked Project Rand to help us.

452
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:50,000
We asked Patel to help us.

453
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:53,000
We asked the weather bureau to help us.

454
00:45:53,000 --> 00:46:01,000
And we even set the stuff up to Sandean, which at that time was research.

455
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:04,000
Disagreement.

456
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:09,000
And we kept getting reports and getting reports.

457
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:24,000
And finally, since we weren't getting any answers to a lot of these questions that were raised by us, particularly the media,

458
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:31,000
we decided to close down the project in which we did.

459
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:39,000
I think it was in, I always think of 4048.

460
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:42,000
And this is a copy of our report.

461
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:49,000
And our report was basically, we got a manager with.

462
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:55,000
There is no evidence that objects reporters once are to be sold in a mass-antiply foreign development,

463
00:46:55,000 --> 00:47:00,000
and therefore they constitute no direct threat to the next securities.

464
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:07,000
The view of this is recommended that the investigation study reports of unidentified flying saucers be reduced to scope.

465
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:16,000
Headquarters, AMC will continue to investigate reports in which realistic technical applications are clearly indicated.

466
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:22,000
And that's basically conclusions and direct directions.

467
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:29,000
Now, I also have heard lots of reports about the flying, the little man with the saucer.

468
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:39,000
And one of the things that I kind of recommended or would recall was that at one time we got a bunch of classified equipment.

469
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:45,000
In those days you couldn't talk about crypto equipment.

470
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:51,000
We weren't quite ready to put it in use, so we looked around for a place to store it.

471
00:47:51,000 --> 00:48:01,000
And the only place that offered us was a test cell, or ancient test cells over at the area C.

472
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:07,000
And so we went ahead and put it in there in an action, an action, an action that we would put a guard on.

473
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:13,000
And as usually happens, they'd write us in interest into what's happening in the guard on it.

474
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:15,000
And then we'd have one of our whammy stones.

475
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:20,000
Oh, that's a bunch of little red men, or little blue men, that we'd pick up some of the stuff.

476
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:22,000
And chuck it in the saucer.

477
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:25,000
And I'd get my history grade.

478
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:27,000
Oh, the grade?

479
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:29,000
Oh, okay.

480
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:35,000
They'd stick me in and ask me how they did.

481
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:38,000
And they'd finish by getting questions that I might have answered.

482
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:41,000
And I would always give them their answers.

483
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:45,000
Thank you, George.

484
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:48,000
We have a five-minute live from the show program.

485
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:53,000
What I'd like to do is have Ted McCann, who tell you some of his adventures.

486
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:56,000
Indeed, we're fortunate to have him with us today.

487
00:48:56,000 --> 00:49:10,000
As many of you may already be aware, the Air Force just released another investigation that concluded that there was some findings at the borders of Los Angeles.

488
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:14,000
Do we have any other questions in the back?

489
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:17,000
Ah, three other questions.

490
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:19,000
My name is Ted Gretzman.

491
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:25,000
Sometimes during my career in airing and FPD, George Gregory worked for me.

492
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:28,000
And he is provided for the Air Force pilot.

493
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:33,000
George is probably one of the best pilots I have ever seen.

494
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:45,000
His reports used to go up to Francis Arsdorff, Francis put him in the King's animation, and then they went up to Washington to some lieutenant colonel.

495
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:53,000
Now, about everybody that was associated with this flight saucer, that was this lifetime golden block,

496
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:58,000
Lieutenant Colonel B. B. Fort's flight to and Washington, Golden Block.

497
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:03,000
George Gregory never did write a book, and he's one of the best writers I have ever seen.

498
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:13,000
And he always had, during that period of time, he always had a lot of sightings with somebody who was about to write a book.

499
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:19,000
I think it started with a major chemo, with a ring-born major chemo in London,

500
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:24,000
and before the FPD was published, there was a tremendous amount of sightings.

501
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:29,000
Some of our consultants at that time took the other side and said,

502
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:33,000
if you bleed in flight saucers, you can sell a lot of books.

503
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:38,000
I don't know whether it was Dr. Heidecker, or maybe it was Seiden up in Cornell,

504
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:43,000
but there were probably a few people at that time who were consultants.

505
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:50,000
And they found out that the right objective is to work some flight saucers, not the way to go.

506
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:56,000
If you bleed in them, and go to books that you bleed in them, and so on, you can sell a lot of books.

507
00:50:56,000 --> 00:51:02,000
I don't know where George Gregory is now, but I'm sure I can get some touch with him.

508
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:06,000
I'm going to get his hands on the money at once. Thank you very much.

509
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:08,000
Thank you.

510
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:18,000
Okay, well, let's go over here and decide on my back to the panel.

511
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:23,000
I think I can make some remarks that are charming on this UFO subject.

512
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:29,000
First of all, in the mid-40s, I was a B-29 B-50 flyer,

513
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:35,000
and here are a few occasions where, on a radar, we picked up some really erratic movements,

514
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:38,000
as in the film, Stevens pointed out.

515
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:42,000
On one of these occasions, I got on a radar scope,

516
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:50,000
and we flew right through the darn thing, which meant that the UFO had any kind of sweet or crash,

517
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:54,000
because we flew right through it. It comes down to me, which was a phenomenon.

518
00:51:54,000 --> 00:52:00,000
No question about it, but it's written up as an unidentified flying object.

519
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:07,000
In 1941, I was at Northwestern University, and upon it, of course, was a tritleist scionary with Dr. Heimlich,

520
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:10,000
who was a very capable individual.

521
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:20,000
When I came to attic in 1960, I was with TDE, and I was the exact for the division,

522
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:22,000
and all the UFO reports came through me.

523
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:26,000
And I was very interested in the subject, because most people are,

524
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:33,000
and we had Heimlich as one of our investigators and so forth, and we sent him out.

525
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:39,000
With the team on all these investigations, some of them you just absolutely can't approve.

526
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:45,000
There was one guy up in Michigan, who was literally a hermit, and a UFO came down his backyard,

527
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:48,000
and they had breakfast and lunch together.

528
00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:54,000
And so our team went there, and this guy, honestly, believed it happened.

529
00:52:54,000 --> 00:53:01,000
So we investigated all the food that the UFOs had brought from interplanetary space and so forth.

530
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:06,000
There was all the stuff that's grown on Earth, and we disagreed completely.

531
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:11,000
But as far as he was concerned, UFOs landed in his backyard, and you're never gonna disprove it.

532
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:16,000
So that's the kind of problems that you face when you're doing investigations.

533
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:23,000
Now, as Vence just pointed out, UFOs are a big money private.

534
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:29,000
Heimlich, as long as he was with us, all the reports went through me, so I knew exactly what he said,

535
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:35,000
and I swear nothing was ever found of substance.

536
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:41,000
Now, when we closed the private town, Heimlich went on TV, he wrote books,

537
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:48,000
he became a big talk guest, made all kinds of money.

538
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:55,000
Now there is something, because he's making money up, the whole town he was with us, nothing.

539
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:58,000
I swear nothing.

540
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:03,000
And as soon as he went, I got out of being a consultant for us,

541
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:11,000
suddenly now there is all kinds of substance in the UFOs subject, and he made all kinds of money.

542
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:16,000
That's the kind of problems that you're facing in the UFO program.

543
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:21,000
Thank you.

544
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:24,000
I was blinded out when I found out what you're saying.

545
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:29,000
I just saw the latest issue of aviation and even space technology made on cover,

546
00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:35,000
a few videos, slow motion video, some kind of occurrence, meteorological occurrence,

547
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:43,000
where there's these red sparkles and blasts of reddish light that occur over thunderstorms.

548
00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:45,000
They've never really captured before.

549
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:51,000
So, this meteorological phenomenon, I think, hasn't given us a credit in the farthest press.

550
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:59,000
What I'd like to do is, we have our last panel member here, I'd like to describe his instances,

551
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:02,000
maybe we can take one or two questions from the audience,

552
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:08,000
but I'd like to have Lieutenant Jim McHenry describe some of his activities.

553
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:13,000
I understand Lucy, I want to go ahead and press a lot of the time.

554
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:19,000
We're right at our time here, it's most important, but I think what Jim McHenry has to say,

555
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:23,000
you'll find quite interesting and provide a nice cap of what we're doing.

556
00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:24,000
Jim?

557
00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:28,000
Good morning, I'm Jim McHenry from the Secretary of Staff.

558
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:32,000
We conduct investigation on behalf of GAO.

559
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:37,000
I think Lucy's observation is correct, Colonel still don't want this job.

560
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:44,000
We conduct it about, let's say about 200,000 miles later,

561
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:51,000
a lot of manpower, Lieutenant and Colonel running crazy around the Pentagon more than the usual.

562
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:58,000
He came up with the same answer, he said, Bullshit.

563
00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:06,000
One way on top of it was, as a lot of these UFO sites could turn out to be,

564
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:12,000
it was indeed involved with blue-type apparatus, in this case it was a top secret,

565
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:16,000
formerly top secret project, it was called Project Mobile,

566
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:22,000
it was conducted out of Elm Park, Warmey Airfield, just over the mountains from Rockwell.

567
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:29,000
It was a very compartmented project, it was very difficult to search these documents out,

568
00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:33,000
and I did it with the help of a very able Bruce Satchproff.

569
00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:39,000
I gave a lot of nods, it was a good amount, and we figured this thing out,

570
00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:45,000
and we put together 750 page reports, and a lot of people wanted when it comes over

571
00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:49,000
to the same answer, Colonel Quiknell gave us about 30 or 40 years ago.

572
00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:53,000
Please wait, I'll give you a different answer.

573
00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:59,000
I'll update you on the other issues, thankfully.

574
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:04,000
We have a talk today, one for example, how to load out a question of comment.

575
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:12,000
You kept the impression that Project Blue Boat over flying saucers

576
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:18,000
were the most important element of air pressure at Sparrow Act,

577
00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:25,000
and we put it to bed in the mid-testies with a conference,

578
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:32,000
a congressional committee, a DOD committee, and now here we have another committee,

579
00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:37,000
and we continue putting the bed into bed, but there's always somebody,

580
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:43,000
who apparently must have a book in mind, who are rallying this thing up again.

581
00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:49,000
I want to make one recommendation, at least this organization,

582
00:57:49,000 --> 00:57:52,000
put the damn thing to bed, unless I'm here any more about it.

583
00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:03,000
Unfortunately, I'm getting the high-side from the bag,

584
00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:06,000
we're going to after I pack our bags,

585
00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:11,000
it's been great for the group to photo, and I'd like to not miss that,

586
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:13,000
because it was lunch, fall, and afternoon.

587
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:17,000
Again, on behalf of Commander and Groups Ad,

588
00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:25,000
I want to thank our guests of our panelists for their story, and our anecdotes.

589
00:58:25,000 --> 00:58:28,000
Thanks for the good questions we had in the audience.

590
00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:31,000
Of course, we didn't get to cover all the questions we had,

591
00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:35,000
but at least the statements and remarks and questions from the audience

592
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:38,000
were really well-multiplied to discuss.

593
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:41,000
I agree with the last gentleman's comments.

594
00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:46,000
Indeed, I'm wondering if the Air Force is building to do anything more

595
00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:50,000
to put things to bed, but if you answer yet to that question,

596
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:53,000
I think it's incumbent that you're always going to have,

597
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:57,000
as Colonel Braun Braun said in front of your schedule there,

598
00:58:57,000 --> 00:59:01,000
it's that small, tenacious group, that small percentage of folks

599
00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:04,000
who want to hang onto the unexplained instances,

600
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:07,000
as their reasons for having faith in this is our anomaly.

601
00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:12,000
But it is not the mission of it to me or any of that.

602
00:59:12,000 --> 00:59:16,000
We as a general that is not a technological threat.

603
00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:20,000
Indeed, I'd ask the first guest to talk to the group of guests for truth.

604
00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:24,000
Again, I encourage you to talk with Lieutenant McAndrew,

605
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:26,000
who's still collecting statements from folks,

606
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:30,000
or to have a gather of anecdotes on the death of Bruce Ashbrock.

607
00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:32,000
I want to thank you all.

608
00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:35,000
You've been a wonderful audience and a group of panelists.

609
00:59:35,000 --> 00:59:41,000
I've been asked to remind you to bring your tickets for a luncheon on Saturday.

610
00:59:41,000 --> 00:59:44,000
Please make note of that. Your tickets for the luncheon.

611
00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:50,000
And also if you're interested in taking a video of last year's NAAC reunion,

612
00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:53,000
as well as a video of this year's reunion,

613
00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:59,000
you can contact Bruce Ashbrock that he'll tell us how to get that team.

614
00:59:59,000 --> 01:00:01,000
We're going to be working on a couple of things,

615
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:04,000
and we'll be working on a couple of things before we do it.

616
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:07,000
And I'm going to be very, very happy to talk to you.

617
01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:09,000
Thank you very much.

618
01:00:09,000 --> 01:00:11,000
It's been a wonderful audience.